Doctor Who Club of Australia

[montypython]

Okay, I just wanted to share some of my feelings about where statements made in episodes contradict others. For example:

In GITF Reinette clearly stated "I have seen your world and have no intention of going there", but when the Doctor offered it she was all like "Oo, I'm so excited!"

When the Doctor "dumped" Sarah Jane in Hand of Fear she wanted to leave. They wouldn't have even had that whole episode if the Doctor had gotten the coordinates right. Then afterwards she was like "I've had it, I'm leaving" etc., and the Doctor dropped her off, as he had to go to Gallifrey. But in School Reunion she was saying "You left me, I waited for you", bla bla bla.

In School Reunion the Doctor told Rose "You're different, I'm never going to leave you behind", etc. So what did he do next episode? Dump her for Reinette!

The Doctor told Rose, "I don't do families, I don't stick around", etc. I certainly did not expect him to end up wearing a paper hat eating Christmas dinner. Yeah, I know he regenerated, he's the "New new Doctor", but still.

Oh boy, it feels good to get that off my chest. If you've got stuff you'd like to add, please do.

[Amano07]

in The Hand of Fear it could be understood that Sarah didnt actually want to go. She was only having a little tantrum about the latest adventure ..then the call from gallifrey came and The Doctor had no choice but to leave her.

The thing with families could also be explained that as his interactions with Rose slowly melted away all his hosility etc and he started to become close to the rest of the family. In the next christmas special he even comments that he doesnt do that sort of thing ... i think with Rose the Doctor had never become so close to a companion...

[Greg]

[charlie]

[montypython]

He didn't mean for Lynda to get killed, and maybe Rose did bring her back, we don't know. And the Daleks destroyed so much of Earth, maybe Rose brought those people back too. Cassandra's parents were born on Earth, and that was in the very far future. So where did they come from?

And charlie, let's not forget that the Doctor almost admitted that he loved Rose three times ("Imagine watching that happen to someone you ..." "Tell her I, oh she knows", "Rose Tyler ..."). He's never done that before. Did he ever tell Susan, his own granddaughter, that he loved her (I don't know, I haven't seen any old ones)? The whole new series was about his relationship with Rose. We all know the Doctor has to part with his companions at some point, but Rose was different. And when he did get rid of her (POTW, Doomsday), it was so she'd be safe. Personally I hope there'll be no fuss when he gets rid of Martha.

[Amano07]

[SharazJek]

It is actually aliens the Time Lords don't like on Gallifrey, not specifically humans. There were objections to Nyssa being there in Arc of Infinity, and even though Leela chose to stay with Andred, she never really became a part of time lord society and was held in suspicion by many if not most of the Time Lords (per the Gallifrey audios).

Other companions who have ended up on Gallifrey are Jamie, Zoe and Evelyn, not to mention all the companions in The Five Doctors, (Sarah Jane did get to Gallifrey after all). There are probably more in the novels but I haven't read many of them.

One can only assume that because the Doctor's mind was being messed with, he left SJ behind. In a normal visit to Gallifrey he probably would have taken her. But pre-Invasion of Time, the Doctor was trying to avoid the planet, only a couple of stories earlier cursing the Time Lords for not leaving him alone (Brain of Morbius).

It wasn't until much later that he could come and go waving his ex-president status around the place, companions in tow.

[Greg]

As to Leela being banished from the Capitol (not Gallifrey itself!), there was no suggestion that she'd be banished again once the story was over. Given her whirlwind 'romance' with Andred, are we suspecting she threatened to kill him if he didn't marry her and get her the Gallifreyan equivalent of a green card? And she also spoils the 'no humans' theory, given we know she is descended from a human exploratory team (the Doctor tells her that humans are her ancestors...).

I didn't mention Jamie and Zoe, who were dragged there with the Doctor when the Time Lords captured the TARDIS and were shortly sent home, their memories erased, which indicates the Time Loirds recognised it was a problem and dealt with it.

You might make Nyssa's situation similar to that of Jamie and Zoe, in that the Doctor was summoned to Gallifrey (which isn't the case with Leela), but the Time Lords didn't erase her memory and send her back home to the point where the Doctor first departed. You might suggest this was because they knew Traken was destroyed not long afterwards, but sending Jamie back to materialise so close to a Redcoat was hardly ensuring he was safe...

The significant number of non-Gallifreyans in The Five Doctors I think can be discounted as they were gathered by a mad Time Lord (I assume that someone who regnerates so many time in a short period, as Borusa must have, goes mad...) and, in any case, the Death Zone was used for non-Gallifreyan to fight in and is sealed off from teh rest of Gallifrey.

Other companions in books and audios have made it to Gallifrey, but... well, not everyon reads or hears these spin-offs, so it's better to build an argument about what we saw on TV and use non-TV stories as supporting arguments to a case built around TV series evidence in my view.

So - in the end - I still hold that one of the greatest pieces of hypocrisy (or bad continuity!) is the statement by the Doctor that he can't take Sarah to Gallifrey at the end of The Hand of Fear.

[charlie]

[Sulp Niar]

I feel I should mention that the Doctor said "I love you" to Charley, don't you know... erm... charlie.

I figure you guys are all going from the TV series, but in my opinion the biggest crazy continuity ever has to be the life of the 8th Doctor. I don't think I need to go into details, but over the course of the books, audios and comics there are more inconsistencies and mind-boggling impossibilities than Tennant can shake a sonic screwdriver at (and he does a lot of that, so that's a lot of impossibilities. Then again, Faction Paradox...?).

I don't really care at the end of the day, but I do like reading about these inconsistencies for a laugh. Anything can be explained away if you were really anal, but I personally find it all hilarious.

Although please, no-one get started on future Earth history or UNIT dating... dearie me that stuff is boring (unless we take "UNIT dating" to mean something else. That'd be interesting. Though considering we're talking about the framework of the new series, that'd be about... four people?).

Come to think of it, I have a theory for why the 4th Doctor wouldn't bring Sarah to Gallifrey but would bring Leela... because he's unpredictable and mad. Anyway, when he brought Leela to Gallifrey wasn't he reclaiming his presidency? In which case they couldn't really argue with him bringing an alien could he?

Or if you want to factor in School Reunion's complete changing of the Doctor/Sarah relationship, maybe he kicked her out because he wasn't interested in hanky-panky?

[charlie]

[SharazJek]

[Sulp Niar]

Boy, I really hope we have...

Hang on, I must have missed the half-human bit in Circular Time. Are you referring to episode 4? I'll have to listen to that again. Weird audio, that was.

[SharazJek]

No, it's episode one.

What I should have said is that it explains how a Time Lord (not the Doctor in this case) can regenerate into a different species, therefore the Doctor could indeed take on human characteristics (ie. the human retina) in the telemovie.

[charlie]

Well if timelords can become anything in the universe every time they regenerate then I guess aliens are not forbidden on Gallifrey.

[Sulp Niar]

I actually really like the biodata explanation in the EDAs, which also assumes that the Doctor was an alien all the way up to his 8th, when he became half-human.

Still must listen to that audio.

You know, I've come to realise that you can theoretically blame ANY continuity stuffup or flimsy plot point on... Faction Paradox. Why does the Master dress as an Arabic zombie in Time-Flight? Faction Paradox! Why did the Cybermen suddenly become more emotional round about Earthshock? Faction Paradox! Why did the Cybermen become so susceptible to gold? Faction Paradox! How does the continuity between War of the Daleks and Terror Firma even work? Faction Paradox! Why is the Tenth Doctor so smug and irritating? Faction Paradox!

It's a rather fun game, actually, although it gets pretty old after a while. Still, that's my explanation for any continuity/plot stuff-up from now on.

[montypython]

[Sulp Niar]

I don't like the idea of a female Doctor... actually, I should be more specific. I don't mind having an alternate Doctor that happens to be female... see the problem I have is that the writers/producers will undoubtedly have a whole series of "The Doctor soul searches in his new gender and gets used to being a girl". It'll be like that scene from New Earth where Cassandra takes over the Doctor's body, but for an entire Doctor's life. That would get irritating.

Seeing as I vaguely criticised the 10th Doctor before, I should point out that I love Tennant - he's a great person and he's what makes the 10th Doctor bearable. Without Tennant though, the 10th annoys me. Hmm.

[Greg]

It's worth remembering that the mentions of regenerating the Doctor as a woman were started by John Nathan-Turner, who it appears would do or say anything to get Doctor Who mentioned. Well, almost anything - producing decent stories seemed to be too much most of the time!

[Sulp Niar]

Heh. Meanie.