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Doctor Who Club of Australia
45
Celebrating the 45th anniversary of Doctor Who
Sunday Nov 23rd at Drummoyne RSL Victoria Rd Drummoyne
11 am to 6 pm
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phase5
Joined: 07 May 2006
Posts: 246
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 Posted: Fri Nov 24, 2006 10:09 am Post subject: Series #3: Where to now? |
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With the departure of Rose & Company the series is now back at zero witht the Doctor travelling alone.
Well; he's got to get rid of "The Bride"; and then he'll meet up with "Martha Jones"; but you get the idea.
So; are you hoping for a more adventure based series 3 or a return to the partial "soap", partial "science fiction" series of the last two years?
The decision of course has already been made, so I suppose we'll just have to wait and see ..... |
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Greg
Site Admin
Joined: 26 Jun 2005
Posts: 1824
Location: Canberra
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| Posted: Fri Nov 24, 2006 11:02 am Post subject: Re: Series #3: Where too now? |
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| phase5 wrote: | | a return to the partial "soap", partial "science fiction" series |
I don't particularly agree with either os those terms.
Taking the easy one first, there's very little real 'science' in the show in its current incarnation - and seemingly even less in series 2 than there was in 1. At most it has a veneer of science fiction, but the science doesn't warrant any examination. The show is a fantasy show, with all the so-called science being essentially magic.
As to the soap description, well... Almost everyone has friends and family, and they play recurring roles in your life. In the past, on Doctor Who, this wasn't the case. Most of the featured characters have either had no friends and family mentioned at all, or they are simply plot devices to get the charcter introduced or to have them leave and, less frequently, to get a story going.
Let's have a brief overview:
The Doctor - originally travelling with his granddaughter, Susan. No other known family with (I think) only two acknowledgements they exist other than Susan (in The Tomb of the Cybermen and Fear Her).
Susan - travelling with her grandfather, the Doctor. In her last regular appearance she meets and decides to marry David Campbell.
Ian - no family mentioned. It is generally considered he was romantically involved with Barbara, although you wouldn't think so from some episodes!
Barbara - no family mentioned. It is generally considered he was romantically involved with Ian (see comment above).
Vicki - her father took her off Earth in a spaceship and then died, leaving her an orphan when she met the Doctor. In her last story, she met Troilus and the two decided to get married. Vicki doesn't even have a surname!
Steven - no family mentioned, no romance in his life.
Dodo - another orphan, who has an aunt. Romance? With Dodo? 
Ben - no family mentioned. Some people suggest he and Polly are romantically involved, but it's even less obvious that Ian and Barbara.
Polly - no family mentioned. Some people suggest she and Ben are romantically involved, but you'd be hard pressed to work out if she's interested in Ben, or Jamie, or just something of a flirt. She also doesn't have a stated surname.
Jamie - no family ever appears; in his first story he is with the head of his clan, but this may be a distant relation. Jamie takes an interest in his female travelling companions, but this seems more brotherly than romantic, and is closest with Victoria.
Victoria - her father appears and dies in the first story Victoria is in; there after she's an orphan. She stays with the Harisses when she leaves the TARDIS; they may even have adopted her (though it's not clear).
Zoe - no family, no romantic interests.
Liz - no family, no romantic interests.
Jo - Her uncle got he a job with UNIT, but doesn't appear and is rarely mentioned. She is the subject of several romantic pursuits by men who don't really seem to interest her (Mike Yates, King Peladon, Latep). She meets and agrees to marry Cliff Jones in her last story.
Sarah - She has an aunt, who is ignored after her first story (but finally appears in the abortive K9 and Company spin-off). She has no friends or family who play a significant role in the stories, and no romantic interests.
Harry - no family, friends or romances.
Leela - Her father is mentioned. No romantic interests until she decides to marry Andred for no readily apparent reason.
K9 - We are blessed to have had no romantic storylines for K9. Truly blessed!
Romana - another one with no family and no romances.
Adric - he has a brother who appears in his first story and gets some later mentions. No romantic interests - but is anyone surprised at that?
Nyssa - she has a father and a stepmother, both of whom die in a plot of the Master's. Then her planet gets blown up. She is very forgiving, though, as she seems to forget this after Logopolis. No romantic interests (other than the large sonic vibrator she keeps in her bedroom - see The Visitation).
Tegan - an aunt who dies in her first story, and a cousin (was he Aunt Vanessa's son?) and even a grandfather. Tegan was spoiled with a plethora of one-off appearance relatives. No romances.
Turlough - exiled to Earth, so when Turlough's brother makes an appearance, you know he's leaving. No romances for this boy, either.
Peri - well, her step-father appears in her initial story. Her mother and actual father are unknown. Peri was, of course, the target of much romantic interest in her stint in the TARDIS, and her marriage to King Yrcanos at the end made Leela's marriage seem well thought through and neatly plotted.
Mel - no family and no romances.
Ace - Another one with more than one family member (her mother and grandmother both appear) and, saints alive, she's got friends! Prior to Rose, Ace is the regular in the series that seems to have had a life away from the Doctor.
I've left out Katarina, Sara Kingdom, and the UNIT regulars as they aren't really companions - but they don't have much in the way of families either.
And, by the way, Captain Jack is more of a throw-back to these old style companions...
The point is: these characters are not fully developed. They have no real lives away from the adventures we see. Their friends and members of their families rarely appear - and none of them appear a second time (go on, someone prove me wrong!).
The current series of Doctor Who has more in common with contemporary television than it does with soap opera. Viewers expect the characters to be more developed, and to have ongoing storylines, and the show delivers it. It helps keep viewers interested, and an ongoing viewing base other than long-term fans is essential for the show to survive. A show that hits the reset switch after every story isn't going to be required regular viewing for enough people.
Last edited by Greg on Sun Nov 26, 2006 10:36 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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Speckled Jim
Joined: 14 Jul 2006
Posts: 138
Location: Auckland, Un Zud
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| Posted: Fri Nov 24, 2006 2:52 pm Post subject: |
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If by "soap" you mean the emotional undercurrent to the plotline; I'd like to see far less of that, and more energy invested in cutting-edge stories.
Rose looking the Daleks in the eye and saying "I destroyed you!" while an operatic score builds in the background; the constant romantic tension; the tears; the kisses .... I don't necessarily want it gone, I'd just like them to tone it down a bit. |
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Chris
Joined: 27 Sep 2006
Posts: 37
Location: Launceston
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| Posted: Fri Nov 24, 2006 10:03 pm Post subject: |
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Personally i too would like a lot less "soap".
I really couldn't give two hoots as to whats going on in the companions family's life (sure it may mean more developed chracters or what not but i really don't care) to be honest. |
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dave
Joined: 26 Jun 2005
Posts: 608
Location: Brisbane, Queensland
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| Posted: Fri Nov 24, 2006 10:47 pm Post subject: |
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| Greg wrote: | | Nyssa - she has a father and a stepmother, both of whom die in a plot of the Master's. Then her planet gets blown up. She is very forgiving, though, as she seems to forget this after Logopolis. No romantic interests (other than the large sonic vibrator she keeps in her bedroom - see The Visitation). |
Loved this part, Greg. |
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montypython
Joined: 25 Jan 2006
Posts: 863
Location: My own little world
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| Posted: Sat Nov 25, 2006 9:54 pm Post subject: |
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There's NO WAY it will be as soapy the last season. Firstly, it'd be boring to do another School Reunion type thing. Secondly, putting chemistry between the Doctor and the second companion in a row would not go down well. I don't want the Doctor to do anything to Martha except hold her hand when running away from evil monsters, and NOT when standing in lifts, or observing something interesting, or anything like that! And by the looks of Martha, she doesn't look like the type who'd need someone to do that (oo, I'm all tough in my leather jacket with my wacky hair). I'm wanting no reunions with family members (or even no family members period, if possible) and more action. If Rose was still there it would be different.
As you might have guessed, I am what is called a Doctor/Rose shipper. I know there aren't many on this site, but I know there are more out there.
Anyway, my point is no Rose equals little to no soap. Thank you for your time. |
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dave
Joined: 26 Jun 2005
Posts: 608
Location: Brisbane, Queensland
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| Posted: Sun Nov 26, 2006 1:00 pm Post subject: |
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| I'm sure members of Adeola's family have already been cast. We can expect more 'soap' I think. |
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phase5
Joined: 07 May 2006
Posts: 246
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| Posted: Sun Nov 26, 2006 1:17 pm Post subject: Re: Series #3: Where too now? |
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| Greg wrote: | | phase5 wrote: | | a return to the partial "soap", partial "science fiction" series |
I don't particularly agree with either os those terms.
Taking the easy one first, there's very little real 'science' in the show in its current incarnation - and seemingly even less in series 2 than there was in 1. At most it has a veneer of science fiction, but the science doesn't warrant any examination. The show is a fantasy show, with all the so-called science being essentially magic.
As to the soap description, well... Almost everyone has friends and family, and they play recurring roles in your life. In the past, on Doctor Who, this wasn't the case. Most of the featured characters have either had no friends and family mentioned at all, or they are simply plot devices to get the charcter introduced or to have them leave and, less frequently, to get a story going.
Let's have a brief overview:
The Doctor - originally travelling with his granddaughter, Susan. No other known family with (I think) only two acknowledgements they exist other than Susan (in The Tomb of the Cybermen and Fear Her).
Susan - travelling with her grandfather, the Doctor. In her last regular appearance she meets and decides to marry David Campbell.
Ian - no family mentioned. It is generally considered he was romantically involved with Barbara, although you wouldn't think so from some episodes!
Barbara - no family mentioned. It is generally considered he was romantically involved with Ian (see comment above).
Vicki - her father took her off Earth in a spaceship and then died, leaving her an orphan when she met the Doctor. In her last story, she met Troilus and the two decided to get married. Vicki doesn't even have a surname!
Steven - no family mentioned, no romance in his life.
Dodo - another orphan, who has an aunt. Romance? With Dodo?
Ben - no family mentioned. Some people suggest he and Polly are romantically involved, but it's even less obvious that Ian and Barbara.
Polly - no family mentioned. Some people suggest she and Ben are romantically involved, but you'd be hard pressed to work out if she's interested in Ben, or Jamie, or just something of a flirt. She also doesn't have a stated surname.
Jamie - no family ever appears; in his first story he is with the head of his clan, but this may be a distant relation. Jamie takes an interest in his female travelling companions, but this seems more brotherly than romantic, and is closest with Victoria.
Victoria - her father appears and dies in the first story Victoria is in; there after she's an orphan. She stays with the Harisses when she leaves the TARDIS; they may even have adopted her (though it's not clear).
Zoe - no family, no romantic interests.
Liz - no family, no romantic interests.
Jo - Her uncle got he a job with UNIT, but doesn't appear and is rarely mentioned. She is the subject of several romantic pursuits by men who don't really seem to interest her (Mike Yates, King Peladon, Latep). She meets and agrees to marry Cliff Jones in her last story.
Sarah - She has an aunt, who is ignored after her first story (but finally appears in the abortive K9 and Company spin-off). She has no friends or family who play a significant role in the stories, and no romantic interests.
Harry - no family, friends or romances.
Leela - Her father is mentioned. No romantic interests until she decides to marry Andred for no readily apparent reason.
K9 - We are blessed to have had no romantic storylines for K9. Truly blessed!
Romana - another one with no family and no romances.
Adric - he has a brother who appears in his first story and gets some later mentions. No romantic interests - but is anyone surprised at that?
Nyssa - she has a father and a stepmother, both of whom die in a plot of the Master's. Then her planet gets blown up. She is very forgiving, though, as she seems to forget this after Logopolis. No romantic interests (other than the large sonic vibrator she keeps in her bedroom - see The Visitation).
Tegan - an aunt who dies in her first story, and a cousin (was he Aunt Vanessa's son?) and even a grandfather. Tegan was spoiled with a plethora of one-off appearance relatives. No romances.
Turlough - exiled to Earth, so when Turlough's brother makes an appearance, you know he's leaving. No romances for this boy, either.
Peri - well, her step-father appears in her initial story. Her mother and actual father are unknown. Peri was, of course, the target of much romantic interest in her stint in the TARDIS, and her marriage to King Yrcanos at the end made Leela's marriage seem well thought through and neatly plotted.
Mel - no family and no romances.
Ace - Another one with more than one family member (her mother and grandmother both appear) and, saints alive, she's got friends! Prior to Rose, Ace is the regular in the series that seems to have had a life away from the Doctor.
I've left out Katarina, Sara Kingdom, and the UNIT regulars as they aren't really companions - but they don't have much in the way of families either.
And, by the way, Captain Jack is more of a throw-back to these old style companions...
The point is: these characters are not fully developed. They have no real lives away from the adventures we see. Their friends and members of their families rarely appear - and none of them appear a second time (go on, someone prove me wrong!).
The current series of Doctor Who has more in common with contemporary television than it does with soap opera. Viewers expect the characters to be more developed, and to have ongoing storylines, and the show delivers it. It helps keep viewers interested, and an ongoing viewing base other than long-term fans is essential for the show to survive. A show that hits the reset switch after every story isn't going to be required regular viewing for enough people. |
A very extensive response; but did you know that on average a resume is looked at for eactly 17 seconds?
The question was: "are you hoping for a more adventure based series 3 or a return to the partial "soap", partial "science fiction" series of the last two years?" I'm not sure what your answer is.
PS. Currently comtempoary television (prime time shows) are expensive soap and have been for a decade or two. |
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Greg
Site Admin
Joined: 26 Jun 2005
Posts: 1824
Location: Canberra
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| Posted: Sun Nov 26, 2006 6:35 pm Post subject: |
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What I'd like to see is:
1. Make the Doctor think again: at the moment, the Doctor will whip out his sonic screwdriver of psychic paper to cut through any bothersome plot issues or danger. Most stories are solved by either another person or thing that is present at the place where the TARDIS lands. It'd be nice to have something that relied on real science rather than technobabble. The Doctor used to come up with clever ideas to resolve his problems, lets have the Doctor being clever again.
2. More danger: allied to the previous point, as well as resolving problems with whatever deus ex machina solution is on hand, series 2 suffered from the Doctor and Rose having too much fun. Yes, they should enjoy the adventure, but having them laughing in the face of whatever danger they meet as well as having a handy-dandy solution to every problem means that it never feels dangerous. Series 1 felt dangerous, Series 2 didn't.
These two points are far more important to me than whether Martha's family turns up from time to time. If my two points were realised, I'd be happier by far.
(For those who can't guess, I preferred Series 1 to Series 2!) |
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Chris
Joined: 27 Sep 2006
Posts: 37
Location: Launceston
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| Posted: Sun Nov 26, 2006 7:03 pm Post subject: |
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| Reviving the sonic screwdriver was such a crappy idea!! why the producers/writers decided to bring it back i'll nenver know... |
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meglos
Joined: 29 Jun 2005
Posts: 670
Location: Perth
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| Posted: Sun Nov 26, 2006 8:12 pm Post subject: |
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| Chris wrote: | | Reviving the sonic screwdriver was such a crappy idea!! why the producers/writers decided to bring it back i'll nenver know... |
It makes a cool toy though  |
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Greg
Site Admin
Joined: 26 Jun 2005
Posts: 1824
Location: Canberra
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| Posted: Sun Nov 26, 2006 10:48 pm Post subject: |
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| dave wrote: | | I'm sure members of Adeola's family have already been cast. We can expect more 'soap' I think. |
The new companion's name is Martha Jones. She's played by Freema Ageyman, who also played Adeola, but they are different characters. It's much like Nicholas Courtney playing Bret Vyon and Brigadier Lethbridge-Stewart, or Peter Purves playin Morton Dill and Steven Taylor, or Lalla Ward playing Princess Astra and Romana (to name three examples - not a complete list!).
Martha's family have indeed been cast, but RTD has alread indicated that Martha is more independent of her family than Rose, being both older and having a career. |
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Seamus
Joined: 16 Sep 2006
Posts: 104
Location: Balgowlah
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| Posted: Sun Nov 26, 2006 11:18 pm Post subject: |
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I like the campiness of the series past and present. Sometimes is it more camp than others of course. But those Black Cult of Skaro Daleks are just such bitchy extraterestrial drag queens and I love 'em! Even started spending my hard earned on some 12" remote controlled Daleks.
I am worried that the creativity of writers will be stretched thin because of the competing series TORCHWOOD. For me the Doctor was like a protector of the Earth but now we've got Captain Jack - and I do love the character and the actor who is charming - but I worry the Doctor's role as protector will be somehow diminished.
Maybe they will explore the Time Wars and there might even be other surviving Timelords - even a return of the Master somehow? Who would you like to see in the role of the Master if it ever came to be? At first, I thought of someone with a goatee and an evil face, but then I thought of Mel Gibson's use of a beautiful woman to portray Satan in one of his films. Maybe someone like Jude Law as the master with no goatee. Just Law's beautiful face hiding a dark heart? Or they could go the other way and turn the Master into a bit of a Gallifreyan "Klingon" who wants to go back to the good old days when the Timelords were warriors in the time of Rasillon. 
These are just my late night rantings. Off to bed I go. |
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Sulp Niar
Joined: 07 Nov 2005
Posts: 787
Location: Where You Only Live Thirteen Times
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| Posted: Mon Nov 27, 2006 6:32 pm Post subject: Re: Series #3: Where too now? |
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| Greg wrote: | | Dodo - another orphan, who has an aunt. Romance? With Dodo? |
If you haven't already, I advise you to read Who Killed Kennedy. Haha. I'm assuming when you're talking of a lack of romance/family with companions, you're only referring to the show itself and not Who in any other media. So I won't bother arguing that point.
But I will say that the "soap" elements referred to of the last two series generally encompass both the concept of family and romance. However, not many people seem to realise that these two concepts can be separated. For my money, I wouldn't mind seeing Martha having a family at all... as long as she doesn't fall in love with the Doctor. If she does... well, I'm just sick of the Doctor/companion love plot threads (my fault for being such an 8th Doctor fan, really).
I agree with the sonic screwdriver and psychic paper being too useful, but ironically, when the 10th Doctor seemed to use them far too much in Series Two, it also showed that he was rather more capable than the 9th. So I'm not sure which is necessarily better - let's hope they strike a balance between the two, as the old classics used to.
So as for the actual question of this thread of whether I want a more adventure based Series Three - weirdly enough, no I don't. Because Doctor Who is better than being standard American-style butch sci-fi. All they have to do is, as I said before, strike a delicate balance between "soap" and "sci-fi" (I'm not getting into that argument) and I'm sure they'll make a cracking series. |
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Greg
Site Admin
Joined: 26 Jun 2005
Posts: 1824
Location: Canberra
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| Posted: Mon Nov 27, 2006 9:51 pm Post subject: Re: Series #3: Where too now? |
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| Sulp Niar wrote: | | Greg wrote: | | Dodo - another orphan, who has an aunt. Romance? With Dodo? |
If you haven't already, I advise you to read Who Killed Kennedy. Haha. I'm assuming when you're talking of a lack of romance/family with companions, you're only referring to the show itself and not Who in any other media. So I won't bother arguing that point. |
Yes, I'm referring to the televised stories only. The companions throughout the show's history have quite extensive backgrounds now thanks primarily to the novels - surnames and everything!
As for Dodo, I've read both Who Killed Kennedy and The Man in the Velvet Mask, so I think I know pretty much all of Dodo's sex life, thanks very much! (And just to prove that there's justice in the world, Dodo still gets more than Adric!) |
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Sulp Niar
Joined: 07 Nov 2005
Posts: 787
Location: Where You Only Live Thirteen Times
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| Posted: Tue Nov 28, 2006 5:30 pm Post subject: Re: Series #3: Where too now? |
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| Greg wrote: | | As for Dodo, I've read both Who Killed Kennedy and The Man in the Velvet Mask, so I think I know pretty much all of Dodo's sex life, thanks very much! (And just to prove that there's justice in the world, Dodo still gets more than Adric!) |
Hahaha. Cheers to that. |
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Chelle
Joined: 30 Nov 2006
Posts: 16
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| Posted: Tue Dec 05, 2006 1:45 pm Post subject: Re: Series #3: Where to now? |
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| phase5 wrote: | | ...are you hoping for a more adventure based series 3 or a return to the partial "soap", partial "science fiction" series of the last two years? |
Maybe this is a chick thing, but I liked the way Rose's family was developed and gradually pulled into the series. It brought a new dimension to the Doctor's character too by highlighting the fact that he is alone in the universe. I probably shouldn't be admitting to this, but the second series made me cry more than a few times... so I wouldn't want to lose that element of the show.
The other thing I'd like to see in the new series is more about the Doctor's past, I guess that would be more "science fiction". So many questions!
Why is the Doctor's title "more than just a secret" (the Girl in the Fireplace)?
When was the Doctor a father (Fear Her)?
What is the Face of Boe's big secret (New Earth)?
And what exactly did the Doctor do to be responsible for killing his own kind (the Impossible Planet)?
Oh, and I love the Dalek episodes... more of those please! |
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Greg
Site Admin
Joined: 26 Jun 2005
Posts: 1824
Location: Canberra
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| Posted: Tue Dec 05, 2006 4:09 pm Post subject: Re: Series #3: Where to now? |
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| Chelle wrote: | | When was the Doctor a father (Fear Her)? |
Easiest question in the world - he was a afther sometime before the show was first shown back in 1963, as he was accompanied by his granddaughter, Susan, in the very first episode.
He was next a father in the novel Father Time... |
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Chelle
Joined: 30 Nov 2006
Posts: 16
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| Posted: Fri Dec 08, 2006 10:18 am Post subject: |
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Okay, here comes another dumb question... please try to be patient. I didn't discover Doctor Who until the new series came out (wasn't allowed to watch it as a kid), so I've got some catching up to do!
Susan was the Doctor's grandaughter... but didn't she end up shacking up with some bloke on Earth? So was she a Time Lord? Or part human? If so, what were the Doctor's kids?
And if Susan stayed on Earth, there'd be the possiblity of the Doctor having descendants here, wouldn't there? |
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Greg
Site Admin
Joined: 26 Jun 2005
Posts: 1824
Location: Canberra
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| Posted: Fri Dec 08, 2006 5:37 pm Post subject: |
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| Chelle wrote: | Okay, here comes another dumb question... please try to be patient. I didn't discover Doctor Who until the new series came out (wasn't allowed to watch it as a kid), so I've got some catching up to do!
Susan was the Doctor's grandaughter... but didn't she end up shacking up with some bloke on Earth? So was she a Time Lord? Or part human? If so, what were the Doctor's kids?
And if Susan stayed on Earth, there'd be the possiblity of the Doctor having descendants here, wouldn't there? |
We ahve no information from the TV series what happened to Susan (although she did make a return appearance in The Five Doctors).
In the novels, the departurew of Susan and the Doctor is related in Lungbarrow, which explains that Susan is both the Doctor's granddaughter and not exactly the Doctor's granddaughter (Confused? That happens!). She's from Gallifrey, but not a Time Lord.
Susan returns in Legacy of the Daleks, which states that Susan wasn't fertile with David Campbell, which seems contradictory with revelations about the Doctor's parentage as revealed in Doctor Who (the TV movie). Of copurse, there a Brief Encounter in Doctor Who Monthly in which the Doctor meets Susan's daughter...
So, there's no simple answer to this question. It'll change as new info is added to the mix. |
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