Doctor Who Club of Australia

Greg · Last edited by Greg on Sun Aug 10, 2008 8:00 am; edited 2 times in total

Starting this early as I'm away from my space/time visualiser this weekend, and those who aren't may wish to comment!

More from me later...

Ickabod · Joined: 26 Jun 2005 Posts: 504 Location: far far away

that was for the clips I've seen....still giving it a #1 Embarassed

Sulp Niar · Posted: Sun May 11, 2008 5:46 pm Post subject:

I don't think that was entirely successful - I don't think we had enough time to get to know Jenny before she died. Yeah, that's sort of the point (all the soldiers were like that), but it still meant the as-usual-orchestral-sad-bits felt a bit too heavy. A bit of a quiet sadness would have been fine, but I don't think it was tear-jerking. It affected me as much as the Hath on the surface buying it, to be honest. And, er, I'm not entirely sure about the end... unless of course she's due to come back at some stage. Felt a little weird to me.

But, kudos for what we got. An effort in world-building in 45 minutes; last time, Stephen Greenhorn gave us 'The Lazarus Experiment', and despite the excellent scene about World War II, we really just knew of a cathedral and a dinner party. Hardly the most interesting of places. Here, we've got a little world built, but a surprising one too; I certainly wasn't expecting it to be revealed as a seven-day war. War of the Week. And for old fans, the temple-being-a-spaceship may remind us of 'State of Decay', but at least the effort's being made to present something slightly different.

The interaction of the TARDIS crew is pretty swell here; and, because Donna's got more of role this time, any bits that could have seemed overly-sad and angsty - the Doctor talking about this family and stuff - is always slightly deflated by Donna. That's a good thing; I'm all for the Doctor taking himself seriously, but not necessarily the show. That's pretty much what makes Doctor Who so great, in a way.

We've got military themes, again. I suspect I'll find them more fascinating when I watch this as a standalone rather than directly after 'TSS/TPS'; it probably loses something being aired a week after two weeks of guys shooting at each other. I thought the Hath were a little too nice to be believable; ain't the whole point of those generators that they breed soldiers? Either way, the life cycle of these generations - they die out faster than dragonflies - leads to some thought-provoking ideas. Would you grow disillusioned with the war, an old man, after two hours? Or would you blindly hold onto it, like Cobb does, because it's your only reason for living? Surely the whole point of a dragonfly is to propagate its legacy, in a single day; so if a soldier (unknowingly) has less than a day to live, it makes sense that they'd be utterly obsessed with their task.

Er, yeah. Basically, minor round of applause for me. Here's hoping next week's episode is another that does something a bit different to the norm, that... oh, wait. Agatha Christie. Murder mystery. Monsters. Gareth Roberts. Ah, never mind then.

KnottyEmily · Joined: 12 Aug 2007 Posts: 114 Location: Melbourne

Gave it a 5, but I think I'll go with 4. I'm not sure what I think of the ending - a part of me thinks she should have stayed dead unless she's going to return later, but another part thinks that its good that she was given a second chance to live even if we never see her again.

Another display of how brilliant the Doctor is, although it wasn't surprising. My brother was hiding behind his hands and I was thinking "he'll never do it". Still, it takes a very strong character to resist when faced with that, because he could have done it. We've seen that the Doctor can be merciless when he wants to, but this time he couldn't do it.

EDIT:

was it just my space/time visualiser, or was there a very sloppy edit just before Martha and Donna hug at the end of the episode?

Hiruma · Joined: 30 Jun 2005 Posts: 173 Location: Australia

Good Episode. I liked the use of the propagation tanks to be modified to produce soldiers instead of colonists.

The visuals of the surface world were very cool, a Quarry? Smile

And forgive me if I was wrong, That was Peter D's daughter was it not? The blonde hair and the eyes especially gave it away.. I could so see his influence there.

I did like the Doctor waiting on her to regenerate.. that was interesting. I actually thought that she might regenerate in his arms.. but the scene later was quite interesting on her death bed. I think the show realised that the viewer was expecting her to regenerate.. so it threw in a few lines saying she might not be able to. As for the Doctor killing someone.. well that would of been interesting also. Im not exactly sure why Cobb shot at the Doctor to begin with though.

And sure Ive fired a gun that looked like the guns they were using... a Paintball gun Smile

Now Question that hit me after the episode. Time lords can sense each other. Its established that 'Jenny' is a Time Lady. So now that she is back alive he can sense her? Personally I wish they had never introduced that Time Lord Sense into the show.. It can hit a storyline plot pretty hard.

Panecea · Posted: Mon May 12, 2008 12:58 pm Post subject:

This episode had a very interesting premise. However, I don't believe there was a sufficient time to develop it. Donna's temp jobs have certainly made her observant to say the least (I do wish she would stop calling herself "Super Temp"). It was good to see the Doctor in an authoritative mood. I thought he might actually pull the trigger at first. It was also good to see that Martha is not completely war-hardened.

meglos · Joined: 29 Jun 2005 Posts: 660 Location: Perth

Very enjoyable episode. David Tennant, speaking on Confidential, more or less gave it away that Jenny will be returning. And KnottyEmily, my space/time visualiser did exactly the same thing.

dave · Posted: Mon May 12, 2008 4:04 pm Post subject:

I didn't like this at all. Thought it was way too heavy handed with some of the points it was trying to make, and I'm desperately hoping we've not seen the birth of yet another spin-off. We don't need a combination of Buffy with Doctor Who, thanks! (At least, I don't!)

KnottyEmily · Joined: 12 Aug 2007 Posts: 114 Location: Melbourne

Sulp Niar · Posted: Mon May 12, 2008 7:38 pm Post subject:

Actually... mine did the same thing too...! I'd forgotten about it until you said that.

Much like the Doctor, I think we all need to repair our TARDISes.

Greg · Posted: Mon May 12, 2008 9:49 pm Post subject:

I thought it was pretty good - and gave us yet another woman I'd rather see as the Doctor's companion than Catherine Tate...!

OK, the 'excuse' of how the Doctor has a daughter is a bit thin. I mean, a clone isn't really a person's child. (And the sheer gaping plot hole of having the Doctor being cloned but not Martha or Donna was awfully intrusive even the first time around.)

But... Georgina Moffatt did a great job - a nicely understated performance, drawing attention when required, but not dominating the screen when it isn't. The development of the character across the episode wasn't a big surprise, but at least it was well played.

However, as has been commented, there wasn't that much opportunity to develop much of an attachment to Jenny before she died because of teh sheer number of character demanding attention in this story.

I've decided I'm not going to say anything bad about Donna. Or, to be more precise, having written a paragraph about her that was longer than the rest of this post, I decided not to inflict it on you.

I wonder why the TARDIS couldn't translate the Hath's language, and why Jenny returned to life but didn't appear to actually regenerate. Time will tell in the last case, I suspect!

Sulp Niar · Posted: Mon May 12, 2008 10:13 pm Post subject:

Greg · Posted: Mon May 12, 2008 11:43 pm Post subject:

I wasn't trying to tease - I started to say something about Donna and descended into full-on rant mode. The guts of it was that I don't like Donna!

Sulp Niar · Posted: Tue May 13, 2008 12:01 am Post subject:

Haha ok. I should point out that last episode, I sooort of ranted a bit myself. And uh, deliberately stopped myself from saying all that I wanted to say (probably because, unlike is-Donna-any-good?, it'd be stuff that only I gave the slightest toss about). But it'd be cool to hear your problems with Donna - is it the Tacked-On-Temp stuff? Or, to shift those capital letters around a bit, the OTTness of her? The smug-comedy-tone that manifests when she appears? Her actual acting?

'Cos I mean, I think she works really well and I'd be bored in a lot of the stories' scenes so far if it weren't for her, but I'm sure that she'd get on other peoples' tits. So it'd be interesting to hear.

*coaxes some more*

EDIT: Actually, that should probably be a different thread. If you're up for starting Your Very Own Donna Noble! thread, that'd be cool Smile

. Or maybe we should wait to the end of the season before doing that?

FredDag · Joined: 01 Jun 2006 Posts: 69

I really don't know what to think of this story. Maybe it's one of those episodes that will be setting up for another in time. I agree with the other posts saying there really wasn't enough time for Jenny to be set up properly and to get to know her, pity another two parter couldn't be squeezed in.

I still don't understand why the TARDIS would want to take the Doctor and co to meet Jenny in the first place? Maybe another viewing will clear that up and what's his hand got to do with it again? Why hasn't he chucked it out?

I'm still loving Donna and still think she's a breath of fresh air to the series.

Apart from that, I guess I'll give this episode a good and see what becomes of it.

Back to a traditional story next week.

Greg · Posted: Thu May 15, 2008 6:33 pm Post subject:

Amano07 · Joined: 26 Jun 2005 Posts: 83

i liked it although i felt the progenation machine was a cop out for The Doctor having a daughter, but one thing that i cant remember is how Donna knows The Doctor has two hearts? maybe i am forgetting something from a previous episode or the runaway bride.. does anyone know?

Tegan · Posted: Mon May 19, 2008 7:06 pm Post subject:

I was equivocating between a 4 and a 5 for The Doctor's Daughter, but went with the higher score despite a couple of flaws.

Firstly they gave away the whole is she/isn't she even before the titles came up. At first I was a little disappointed to find out that Jenny isn't Susan's mum after all. On reflection though I find it much more appropriate that she wasn't. It suited the story much better than my earlier hope.

Second, Cobb was too old. But then, not if he was a 1st gen warrior. In other words one of the original humans from the dim dark past of seven days ago. That would suit his attitude and the attempt on the Doctor for taking away his own personal war.

Those two flaws turned out to be explicable, but not the last. Why did they let Jenny live? Did she semi-regenerate? Or just not die? The Doctor can put himself into a sort of comatose state. Does this make Jenny a Timelord?

I can smell a spin-off. Crying or Very sad

Other than that, the story moved quickly, kept you glued to the tube, and didn't have any dud scenes. I loved the way Jenny was both wide-eyed and at the same time world-wise. I hope she returns, but please not in a spin-off series.

Ickabod · Joined: 26 Jun 2005 Posts: 504 Location: far far away

I've only seen 1/2of it but what I saw I liked....both Peter Davison an Sandra Dickinson are blond so that's where Georgia gets her blonde looks from.....but I saw both her parents while watching her (i was able to have a good talk with Sandra at Myers....she wa looking at sheets) and I loved the mose.....Iwill be able to say more when I've fully viewed the show.....and I was so hoping she was Susan's Mum but I'm cool with how she came about

Speckled Jim · Joined: 14 Jul 2006 Posts: 124 Location: Auckland, Un Zud

Nyeh. I thought this was a major letdown - especially after a pretty good two-parter in the Sontaran stories.
The whole daughter thing was such an instant anticlimax that I don't think I really recovered - I felt it was a real cop-out, and somewhat cheekily deceptive, after the previous week's teaser.
But I really couldn't handle the mooshy Hollywood touches that just carpeted the whole thing. The stethoscope on the heart scene, the death scene at the end - all really overdone. As soon as Donna said, "You still got that stethoscope?", we all knew what was coming - but nonetheless it got dragged out into a weepy heartbreaker about love and family, complete with sweeping operatic score, leading into the Doc banging on about what it truly means to be a Time Lord ... oh man, wasn't there a sci-fi story being developed a few moments ago??
I just felt this kind of stuff really dominated the whole episode. The acting was embarrassingly wooden - the bloke who played Gen. Cobb phoned his effort in.
There was some promise towards the end with the whole Source bit, the seven-day war, the subtle skewering of Creationism - not bad, not bad. Then we got a death scene worthy of Spielberg at his most cloying.
As for the final scene - well, does anyone give a damn about Jenny and her impending adventures? If it is going to lead to a Jenny Who spin-off, it reeks of desperation. Otherwise, her character was so one-dimensional I don't really care whether she makes a return visit to the TARDIS at some point.
As for Martha, well, was that it? The much-vaunted return in Series 4? A great actress and character, reduced to the odd scene running across a dark landscape with a bloke in a fish suit? She was criminally wasted here.
Not a great episode. Like The Lazarus Experiment, it was just hugely unexceptional.