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| Should Damien Martyn have been axed from the Australian test squad? |
| Yes, he should have. |
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0% |
[ 0 ] |
| Yes, and he's a rubbish player. |
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20% |
[ 1 ] |
| No, he shouldn't have. |
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40% |
[ 2 ] |
| No, and I want to chop the head off Trevor Hohns. |
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40% |
[ 2 ] |
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| Total Votes : 5 |
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Cyril Washbrook
Joined: 14 Jul 2005 Posts: 28 Location: The TARDIS
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Posted: Sat Sep 24, 2005 11:54 pm Post subject: Damien Martyn - dropped |
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Damien Martyn, by all accounts, had a poor Ashes series. Averaging less than 20 is a low standard for someone of his calibre, and in a losing side, you've got to expect to cop some flak. However, to see him dropped from the side despite being the most consistently performing Australian batsman for five years goes beyond belief. You could say that sentimentality cannot rule the selectors' minds - that past endeavours cannot excuse poor form. However, let's take a look at some facts.
Last year, Damien Martyn was Australia's test player of the year. He notched up 1353 runs at a more than tidy average of 56.37. He fell only a few votes short of winning the Allan Border Medal, and was heralded as being in the best form of his life. In 2004, he had batted better than any other Australian had in the past decade in India, consistently frustrating the Indian bowlers with a game built on a bedrock of patience. The Ashes of 2005 proved to be his first substandard series for nearly two years, going back to his stretch of poor form that had lasted through most of 2003. Back then, he had a run of four or five series where he could barely get past 40, yet was retained in the side on the basis that the team was winning and he had contributed much to the side since his return in 2000.
Yet now, the Australian selectors have abandoned him. One bad series was enough to derail his international career. His chances appear slim of returning to the Australian side. It is not impossible, but for a 34-year-old, it is improbable.
The sheer injustice of it all is highlighted by the case of Matthew Hayden. Not since Sid Gregory at around the turn of the century had a specialist Australian batsman gone for more than thirty innings without a century. Steve Waugh took 27 innings before notching up his first, and that's about as close anyone else has got. Not only was his form bad, it was consistently bad. Because of his high profile around the world, he stayed in. It helped that Australia were winning. Yet if the same circumstances were applied to Hayden, he would have been dropped in early 2004 when his form began to slide. Sure, he scored a century in the final test, but given his disastrous form for a year, he is exceptionally fortunate to still be in the Australian side.
Dean Jones said that Damien Martyn has had long enough to cement his place in the side. Isn't being Australia's test player of the year, almost winning the Allan Border and being arguably Australia's most consistent batsman over the last five years enough to cement a place in the side? Or do the Australian selectors throw out all the bricks when the mortar starts to crack?
Anyway, enough rambling...your opinions (and vote in the poll). |
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meglos
Joined: 29 Jun 2005 Posts: 660 Location: Perth
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Posted: Sun Sep 25, 2005 2:32 am Post subject: |
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Martyn being dropped is an absolute bloody disgrace. He has been the scapegoat again  |
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Cyril Washbrook
Joined: 14 Jul 2005 Posts: 28 Location: The TARDIS
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Posted: Sun Sep 25, 2005 11:54 am Post subject: |
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| meglos wrote: | Martyn being dropped is an absolute bloody disgrace. He has been the scapegoat again  |
I'll deliver the head to your doorstep tomorrow . |
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rundoctoritsthegatherer Serial Pest
Joined: 26 Jun 2005 Posts: 278 Location: Sydney
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Posted: Sun Sep 25, 2005 9:01 pm Post subject: |
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I remember being at the SCG the day he could have won the game for Australia against South Africa, and instead of letting Craig McDermott do the work as he had all morning, he decides to lash out and get caught, ensuring Australia once again failed chasing a three figure target starting with 1. He should never have been chosen to play for Australia again, and I'm glad he's gone.
Having said that, your poll should have an option "Yes, he's a rubbish player but I still want to chop off the head of Trevor Hohns". The man is useless - he bows to Ricky Ponting pressure and insists on picking Andy Symonds when the whole country knows he is crap, and keeps dropping Simon Katich even though he is scoring runs. I saw Michael Slater grilling Allan Border about that during the Indian tour when they dropped Katich for Ponting to come back, after Katich had filled in more than admirably for Ponting at number 3 in the first 3 tests and was not even close to being our worst batsman. The traitor had no answers. He was squirming in his seat and his pissweak "it's a hard one, and we had to drop somebody" fooled no one. At least he isn't a selector anymore. Hayden can consider himself more than just lucky he is still in the side. He should have been dropped before the Ashes, let alone before the series ended. The sooner the Qld influence on the selection committee is gone the better. |
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Cyril Washbrook
Joined: 14 Jul 2005 Posts: 28 Location: The TARDIS
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Posted: Tue Sep 27, 2005 11:55 pm Post subject: |
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| rundoctoritsthegatherer wrote: | | I remember being at the SCG the day he could have won the game for Australia against South Africa, and instead of letting Craig McDermott do the work as he had all morning, he decides to lash out and get caught, ensuring Australia once again failed chasing a three figure target starting with 1. He should never have been chosen to play for Australia again, and I'm glad he's gone. |
I can see you'd fit into the selection panel perfectly. It was NOT HIS FAULT that Australia lost. If Australia had been good enough, Damien Martyn shouldn't have had to hang around for 106 minutes and try and fend for himself. To put it in perspective, ask yourself how many other players were able to hang around for as long as he did. While everyone else was rocketing their wickets away, Damien Martyn kept a cool head and lasted nearly two hours in trying conditions.
I consider your statement "He should never have been chosen to play for Australia again" makes me absolutely disgusted, and glad that people like you aren't selecting the Australian side. He was the best batsman in domestic cricket for five years up to 2000 when he was next picked. Over the next five years he averaged 50 in test cricket, was Australia's most consistent batsman and one of the most elegant batsmen to grace the world stage. The point is not whether he deserved to be picked again (which he most certainly did) - but whether he deserved to be dropped this time. No. He did not. By that logic, Ricky Ponting would have been dropped in 1999/2000 when he scored three consecutive ducks. Steve Waugh would have been dropped a few series later. Mark Waugh would have been sacked the year before. Or to apply the logic to some more unreasonable examples, Sir Garfield Sobers would have been dropped after his second series. That's what I'm talking about. The stupidity and irrationality of it all. He must be the first person to win Australia's Test Player of the Year and to be dropped a series later. |
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meglos
Joined: 29 Jun 2005 Posts: 660 Location: Perth
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Posted: Wed Sep 28, 2005 1:51 am Post subject: |
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| Cyril, you are absolutley spot on! |
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rundoctoritsthegatherer Serial Pest
Joined: 26 Jun 2005 Posts: 278 Location: Sydney
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Posted: Wed Sep 28, 2005 11:06 am Post subject: |
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Knew I'd get at least one of you going with my post.
I'm not Damien Martyn's biggest fan, and I've never made any secret of that fact, but certainly one Hayden, M. should've been dropped before considering anyone else in the last test side for a return to state cricket. The fact that he was even chosen for the Ashes tour, let alone in every test in the series smacks of favourtism, which is the way the Aussie cricket team works.
Why was Michael Slater dropped? He wasn't playing badly at the time - but stories surfaced (true or not I don't know) about him fooling around with Adam Gilchrist's wife. Result - never played for Australia again. Matthew Elliott, another player I'm not a massive fan of, had a great tour of England (didn't he score 199 in one of his test innings?) came home and told his wife about all the sorts of things players did on tour, including all the sordid details. Word spread like wildfire that he had broken the golden rule - "what happens on tour stays on tour". Result - never played for Australia again, despite kicking arse for Victoria in the Sheffield Shield. I'm guessing that Damien Martyn has done something (or not done something) that has pissed off someone in high places, or at the very least, not stayed mates with the right people.
There are several other examples. Why was Andy Bichel permanent 12th man for 10 years? Bowlers came and went, some worthy of a test spot and others laughable (the can't throw can't catch fiasco springs to mind), but Andy Bichel only played a handful of tests, despite the fact he never let Australia down and could bowl into the wind when none of the other quicks wanted to. Why was Andy Symonds picked in the World Cup? Sure he had a great tournament, but his form going into it hardly warranted selection. His form after it has been far from consistent either, yet he continues to be chosen. Why? He's a good mate of Ricky Ponting. Why was Ian Healy picked for Australia after something like 6 first class games and there were at least 3 better keepers playing Shield cricket at the time? Why was he dumped so quickly for Adam Gilchrist after being vice captain for years? Why did Allan "the traitor" Border promise him he could play his last test at the Gabba, his home ground, and then not select him? Why was Stuart McGill not given a gig in the Ashes, despite the fact that there were pitches that turned, Shane Warne was knocking them over like flies (40 wickets in the series is a damn fine effort) and the quicks weren't really doing their jobs well. Gillespie just seems to have lost it, after that freak injury before the second test McGrath just couldn't get it right when he did play, Lee was good in patches, and Shaun Tait was nothing short of woeful at times. McGill still wasn't given a go.
I could go on for pages. There are several more selections over the past 10 years and more that defy conventional logic. Fact is, we may never know the real reason Damien Martyn was dropped, and I'm sure it won't be the last decision made by the selectors that baffles cricket followers in this country. |
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meglos
Joined: 29 Jun 2005 Posts: 660 Location: Perth
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Posted: Wed Sep 28, 2005 1:21 pm Post subject: |
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Some valid points in there as well rundoc. There are so many things I could say on this matter but I don't know where to start or finish so I think I'll just keep scratching my head  |
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Cyril Washbrook
Joined: 14 Jul 2005 Posts: 28 Location: The TARDIS
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Posted: Fri Oct 07, 2005 2:01 pm Post subject: |
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| rundoctoritsthegatherer wrote: | Knew I'd get at least one of you going with my post.
I'm not Damien Martyn's biggest fan, and I've never made any secret of that fact, but certainly one Hayden, M. should've been dropped before considering anyone else in the last test side for a return to state cricket. The fact that he was even chosen for the Ashes tour, let alone in every test in the series smacks of favourtism, which is the way the Aussie cricket team works. |
Good point, but that doesn't mean we can just sit back and accept that the Australians work like that.
| Quote: | | Why was Michael Slater dropped? He wasn't playing badly at the time - but stories surfaced (true or not I don't know) about him fooling around with Adam Gilchrist's wife. Result - never played for Australia again. Matthew Elliott, another player I'm not a massive fan of, had a great tour of England (didn't he score 199 in one of his test innings?) came home and told his wife about all the sorts of things players did on tour, including all the sordid details. Word spread like wildfire that he had broken the golden rule - "what happens on tour stays on tour". Result - never played for Australia again, despite kicking arse for Victoria in the Sheffield Shield. |
You seem to forget that he returned against Sri Lanka, scoring 1 and 0. Mind you, he did deserve more opportunities. The problem is, there was just no place for him in the side. I suppose you're correct on the basis that he should have had a look-in earlier.
| Quote: | | I'm guessing that Damien Martyn has done something (or not done something) that has pissed off someone in high places, or at the very least, not stayed mates with the right people. |
Well, it's well known that he's not the favourite of the Australian selectors, but as I say, it doesn't mean that we should just accept that it is the way of the selectors that they are biased, subjective and liable to make personal judgments on a player. In some cases, like Shane Warne, you'd sort of expect that he would be punished, but in the case of Damien Martyn, it tells more about the relationship between Martyn and the selectors by dropping him that it would if they had just left him in, knowing that he had averaged 40 or more in the previous 10 series.
I won't directly quote up the rest, but I'll make some specific comments. Ian Healy was not sacked - he retired. You can speculate all you like about decisions amongst the selectors, but the thing is, if there are internal politics in the team, as I have said, it's something that should stay on the inside and not affect the judgment of the selectors. If the selectors can't make an objective judgment, then they're not fit to be selectors. |
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rundoctoritsthegatherer Serial Pest
Joined: 26 Jun 2005 Posts: 278 Location: Sydney
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Posted: Sat Oct 08, 2005 12:21 am Post subject: |
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| Cyril Washbrook wrote: | | Ian Healy was not sacked - he retired. You can speculate all you like about decisions amongst the selectors, but the thing is, if there are internal politics in the team, as I have said, it's something that should stay on the inside and not affect the judgment of the selectors. If the selectors can't make an objective judgment, then they're not fit to be selectors. |
Ian Healy was pushed. He was told he was going to be dropped in favour of Gilchrist, and he asked Border if he could just play one more test, and finish up at the Gabba, his home ground, a request to which the traitor agreed. We all know what happened next. Gillie made his test debut in that Gabba test and Healy was forced to retire, knowing he'd never be picked for Australia again.
You're dead right that selectors should not be affected by internal politics. They should be picking the best possible eleven for each given match, regardless of whether they like them or not.
I'm also not saying that we should accept that. I'm just saying that's the way it is. Your average armchair critic isn't going to change that, as much as a lot of us would like to. |
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