Doctor Who Club of Australia

[Cyril Washbrook]

(I wrote part of this on The Age "Your Say" pages)

Forgive me for taking a general swipe at the Australian public, but I'm really angry. The inconsistency and inability of the general public to make up their mind regarding standards relating to the death penalty and whether someone "deserves" death is just mind-boggling and makes me ashamed to live in the same country. To flip back to Joseph Koh's article a couple of days ago in the Opinion pages of The Age, he said that the punishment does indeed fit the crime. That's a sentiment expressed by the majority of people who have written into many of the newspapers and discussed the matter in the general public arena, and it raises one of the most saddening and terrible points of the whole public perception of this trial and the consequences following it.

If indeed people advocate the death penalty being applied to the now-deceased Nguyen Tuong Van, then why were people angry at 20 years given to Schapelle Corby (duly overturned for 15 years) in Indonesia? Does a mandatory death sentence excuse the Singaporean government from the circus that occurred in Indonesia? If we take the focus off the death penalty, and regard drug cases in general, what gives almost every single person in Australia the right to assume that Corby was innocent of an intentional crime, and that Nguyen Tuong Van is not? The evidence would strongly suggest to a judicial system that Corby was guilty, and should have faced the consequences, whether she really was or not. The term "judicial" is the key word - (1) she was found with drugs, (2) there was no apparent way of it finding itself in their on its own accord without anyone noticing, and (3) there was no valid explanation given by the defence that could be duly proven.

The death penalty in general is another thing. Does the absence of a sobbing 25-year-old woman, or the lack of coverage of the specific trial serve to cast our minds away from what the death penalty really is? Are we such an ignorant society as to have to rely on someone else force-feeding us with information to make our own judgements? Or could one of the morally-bereft opine on the sympathies of race? While I wouldn't suggest the final suggestion there is necessarily true (and I would be disgusted if it was), the whole public perception appears warped, confused and completely ill-considered.

Unfortunately, this involves a vast array of misconceptions, including:
Nguyen Tuong Van was a drug dealer. He was convincted of drug trafficking, and was not involved in the organisation of drug dealing.
Nguyen Tuong Van was trafficking drugs into Singapore. No, he was not. He was trafficking them from Cambodia to Australia, and as a result the drugs would have been on the market in Australia had Nguyen got past customs. Because of this, the fact that he was tried and executed in Singapore is completely and utterly redundant.
The laws in Singapore are fair and fit the crime. Then what's holding us up here in Australia? Are we sadistic enough to implement the death penalty in Australia? Further to that point, are we prepared to implement a mandatory death penalty for any crime?

It's not just these misconceptions that are appalling to me. It's the sadistic, cruel, malicious, spiteful and hateful nature of the Australian public.
"I would gladly pull the lever myself."
"I would make him die slowly."
"They should kill him in such a way that he dies as painfully as possible."

And this is from a White Nationalist forum, showing that racism is well and truly rife in Australia.
"Swinging high, swinging low, he he he, ho ho ho."
"I only wish I could pull the lever and make this Asian interloper swing myself."
"It's a pity this immigrant scumbag wasn't busted in Thialand, where the death penalty up until a year ago was by machine gun. The bloke would shoot you and go play his guitar, and the last thought of the executioner is the aim...I hope his neck doesn't break on the way down, and the bastard has to choke!"
"I'm with the rest of you, hang him high."
"This little Asian would have more than likely helped the deaths of whites through overdose without even blinking, and the mother has the nerve to suggests Aussie taxpayers should fight for him?"
"Maggots like this Vietnamese toad need a lesson in justice."

I'm not excusing Van Nguyen from his crime, but the sheer apathy and cruelty shown by the Australian public is absolutely appalling. It's not just a case of Nguyen Tuong Van dying on Friday - it appears that the morality of our nation has been thrown out the window.

[dave]

If I felt there was truly any 'justice' in this, I might not be so saddened and appalled by the whole thing. It seems there are more than a few possible links between the Singaporean Government and Burma so far as trafficking heroin goes, and the real people responsible for organising the production and distribution of heroin go free whilst the mules, if they are caught, hang. The madatory death penalty makes sure the mules are silenced, and helps protect the guys at the top.

The people saying Nguyen Tuong Van would have been respnsible for many deaths in Australia may be right, but the ultimate responsibility, surely, would rest with the people who have chosen to take the drug. His death isn't going to prevent a single person from using heroin. His death achieves nothing at all.

As for the White Supremacists, and other people who've made such appalling statements, their inability to show compassion marks them as lacking something fully-human, IMO.

[Ickabod]

Quote:

Somebody save me Let your waters break right through Somebody save me I don't care how you do it Just save, save Come on I've been waiting for you

[SharazJek]

I feel the white supremists AND the bleeding hearts wanting to have a minute's silence at sporting events at the other end of the spectrum are both part of a vocal minority.

I feel the vast majority do indeed feel for the guy's family and friends, and squirm when they think about his method of execution. I certainly do.

However, he was tried and found guilty, and the law of that country was carried out. Jumping up and down in protest or making downright evil comments about how you might want to swing him high yourself isn't going to acheive anything.

The media and particularly Howard, has maximised this situation to the full, to take the focus off more touchy home grown issues. IR Reform for one.

[Cyril Washbrook]

[SharazJek]

So what's the point in getting angry about it if it's not what the majority think?

I feel much more incenced over the mandatory death sentence millions upon million of children receive over lack of food.

Those children have done nothing to deserve death.

According to Singapore's law, Nguyen Tuong Van did do something to deserve it.

I totally disagree with the method of execution. There are far less barbaric methods.

In Shapelle Corby's case, the outrage seems to stem from the seeming injustice of her sentence as opposed to that feller who masterminded the Bali bombings. (What was it....5 years he got??)

I'm sure the same kind of injustice occurs in Singapore.

[SharazJek]

[Wester]

Well I think the death penalty is a backward, barbaric form of punishment.
Thank God we dont have it here in Australia.

Of course, I do understand there are many (perhaps a majority?)rednecks who would love to have an 'old fashioned lynchin' Well, until its a member of their family, of course.

[Ickabod]

[/b]

[SharazJek]

[dave]

One of my favourite authors, Robert Anton Wilson, had his own youngest daughter killed by a native american youth during a robbery of the convenience store she worked in in the late '70's. Before the incident, and following it, he remained staunchly against the death penalty, and even wrote compassionately about the destruction of the native american society that had driven the youth to act as he did. This is not to say he didn't experience a world of sadness and despair about the whole incident - he certainly did, but that didn't turn him so that he became as sad as the perpertrator of the crime. You can find this in 'Cosmic Trigger 1', an autobiographical account of the author's experiences up to the late 70's.

I'd like to think I could act like this, but I don't know if I'd have it in me. I find it admirable though.

[Ickabod]

Quote:

Don't you think murder, rape, child molestation etc., are barbaric forms of behaviour? Why should the life of the criminal be viewed as more important than that of the victim?

it's the after affects..........those left behind who suffer...the anger....guilt.......this guy is dead but his victims have to pick up the pieces...........he broke the law and he paid for it.......in some Asian countries there is no trial...........if you commit a crime you're taken :out the back" and shot.........

over here you are "re-educated"...........but sometimes jail is the worst thing.....

[SharazJek]

[Wester]

[Cyril Washbrook]

[SharazJek]

My hypothetical is not one of revenge. Revenge would be me taking action myself to inflict hurt or death on the offender, outside the course of the system of justice I live under.

Don't confuse true justice as opposed to revenge with bleeding heart rationalisation. It's just as misguided as the previously lamented 'redneck' attitude.

On to Singapore. I don't know anything about their laws. Are there any other offences which carry the death penalty? What ARE the reasons Singapore uses this method of punishment for convicted drug trafficers?

The conspiracy theorist in me wonders whether the harsh penalty and risk involved in getting drugs through the region helps to keep street prices up.

Just a thought.

[Ickabod]

Quote:

Don't you think murder, rape, child molestation etc., are barbaric forms of behaviour? Why should the life of the criminal be viewed as more important than that of the victim?

if a member of my family was raped...molested.....killed........well then l would think differently.......am certainly not a "redneck" but....letting them stay in jail is only putting a bandaid on the wound....

[Wester]

Well Sharazjek, my friend, 'misguided' is your opinion. And you are welcome to it.

[hallhotdogma]

I just really felt sorry for his mum - she has been through enough now

[Ickabod]

yep...........definately............