Doctor Who Club of Australia

ADAMK · Joined: 29 Jun 2005 Posts: 219 Location: Canberra

What do people make of this (Season 25) 1988 story written by Kevin Clarke?

This is the analysis from the official BBC website (WARNING! SPOILERS): http://www.bbc.co.uk/doctorwho/classic/episodeguide/silvernemesis/analysis.shtml

dunmall · Joined: 02 Aug 2005 Posts: 117

even though i know it's bad, i like this one.

Even though it's silly I like the Nazis (sorry they don't call them that in the story do they??) fighting the cybermen.

Hiruma · Joined: 30 Jun 2005 Posts: 173 Location: Australia

Thats right. I post what I think of this story over in the other thread and this turns up

Silver Nemesis is bad because

Gold slingshot pellets kill cybermen
Lady Penfort brings nothing to the story
Cyber converts rush off to investigate bush activity (err.. I dont think so)
Sucky Story

Silver Nemesis is good because
Nazis getting killed by Cybermen.. odd irony
David Bank's Cyberleader
Cybermen
Gun Battle

Seriiously though, Id rank this quite low down on my list of good Cyberman episodes. Some characters wernt needed, the Cybermen died too easily (I always thought they were a match for a Dalek one on one. After this a toddler with a gold spoon could kill one)

Theta Sigma · Joined: 26 Jun 2005 Posts: 4429

The official 25th anniversary story. Part 1 was the last time the series aired on its anniversary date November 23 and this time the date itself gets a significant mention.
Former Blake's 7 producer Vere Lorrimer is listed by the IMDb as the "Tour Guide" in this story presumably the tour at Buckingham Palace. I am not quite sure because the scene was very quick.
The music here is quite as good as Remembrance.
I only last saw the story in 1998 but from Part 1 alone I have a feeling I am find this way better than The Three Doctors & The Five Doctors, the 10th and 20th anniversary stories respectively.

For those not able to find the extended video version of Silver Nemesis, the Doctor Who Reference Guide has a breakdown of all the scenes with the extended scenes being indicated in blue:
http://www.drwhoguide.com/who_7k.htm
One scene that should have been included in the broadcast version was when the Doctor hypnotise the Queen's bodyguards. That was so funny.

Theta Sigma · Joined: 26 Jun 2005 Posts: 4429

Silver Nemesis had Nazis based in South America and the Cybermen.
Funnily enough UKTV last night showed The Saint episode Locate and Destroy which has Simon Templar (Roger Moore) meeting a Nazi living in South America. What is curious about the timing of this episode is that UKTV is not showing The Saint in any particular order. Therefore the timing of this episode between just a day after Silver Nemesis Part 1 on the ABC is bizarre. Then again it is well known that South America is a very popular place for Nazis to hide-out after the World War II.
Following on from The Saint came The New Avengers. The episode that was shown was The Last of the Cybernauts. The Cybernauts as you can see has a similar name to the Cybermen but unlike the Cybermen, the Cybernauts are complete machines. This episode was the sequel to the two Cybernauts episodes from the original series. The villain here is a Davros-like character Felix Kane. Kane is Davros-like because he is disfigured, on a wheelchair and has one arm (his right) just like Davros. Kane even has a Nyder-like henchman. It became pretty clear to me that this can't be a coincidence when Kane

SPOILER

became a Cybernaut, making him half-man, half-machine. Sounds familiar?

END OF SPOILER

The Saint & The New Avengers episodes will be shown again this afternoon on UKTV from 3pm. So if you missed them last night and have UKTV go check it out for yourself.

Wester · Joined: 04 Aug 2005 Posts: 610 Location: Brisbane

Yep. Not a huge favourite of mine, however, it is the 25th anniversary story and for that reason it gets my special attention. I agree about comments about Lady Peinforte - could well do without her in the story.

AaronBrockbank · Joined: 27 Jun 2005 Posts: 27

Theta Sigma · Joined: 26 Jun 2005 Posts: 4429

charlie · Posted: Mon Jan 23, 2006 8:23 pm Post subject:

I liked this one but, as usual, the Cybermen arent as good as they could be (my opinion). The only things I didnt like about these ones were that their hands were to chunky and, as various others have mentioned, they die to easily, quickly and illogically. When the gold arrows hit they either instantly stopped working or exploded. Theres no way the gold could have clogged them that quickly.

Having the Nazis and Lady P was too much I think. They should have gone with one or the other.

One of the things that I really liked was the name of the story didnt include 'Cybermen' so as to leave a surprise.

Dazza · Joined: 05 Jul 2005 Posts: 106

A fair story which passed the time. The Cybermen looked a bit ordinary, especially the cricket gloves.

SharazJek · Joined: 12 Aug 2005 Posts: 902 Location: Hobart, Tasmania

I really enjoyed this when it first aired, and I still do.

The Cybermen getting killed easily doen't really bother me. They had been a very different monster since Earthshock anyway. And they don't really carry any real meanace for me since The Wheel in Space or possible The Invasoin.

Now the new Cybermen for season 2. They finally look scary again.

meglos · Joined: 29 Jun 2005 Posts: 670 Location: Perth

SharazJek · Joined: 12 Aug 2005 Posts: 902 Location: Hobart, Tasmania

I wasn't sure after seeing the still picture of them, but that little glimpse of a cyberman in The Christmas Invasion was FANTASTIC!! Can't wait for that one!

dunmall · Joined: 02 Aug 2005 Posts: 117

now I understand why I like this story! In much the same way I like You Only Live twice, spy who loved me, moonraker and tomorrow never dies...

It's because it's a retread, remake, reimagining (insert your preferred term here) of another story! Seriously has any one noticed the similarities between Nemsis and Rememberance???

*The back story has the Doctor sometime in his past concealing a powerful Gallifrayian artifact in Earth's past.

*Said artifact brings one of his old foes to Earth, where they briefly do battle with a paramilitary force.

*Over the course of the story three factions will be involved to greater or lesser extent.

*The aliens will utilise mind controlled Humans as canon fodder.

*Humans with fascistic leanings try to make deals with the aliens.

*Both sotries end with the Doctor manipulating the aliens into activating the artifact which proceeds to obliterate their orbiting battle fleet.

Maybe I'm reading to much into this Smile

Odnet · Joined: 22 Nov 2005 Posts: 61 Location: Mudgee

dunmall · Joined: 02 Aug 2005 Posts: 117

well no one's really had a problem with different Bond's so far, although some people are acting as if it's the end of the world with Daniel Craig replacing Brosnan...but thats a bit off topic. lol

SharazJek · Joined: 12 Aug 2005 Posts: 902 Location: Hobart, Tasmania

Genlock · Guest

When the Cybermen first appeared in "10th Planet" they weren't evil, they weren't militaristic, they just didn't care. Emotion had been removed. They acted simply from logic. Cold, logically, scary.

By "Silver Nemesis" they were just a bunch of "tin soldiers skulking about the galaxy" and being generally pathetic.

And boy were this bunch of Cybermen a joke. Can't shoot 'em, can't blow 'em up; but hit 'em with a gold tipped arrow or gold coin and they go down like flies on dung. And not just fall over, they blow up with sparks and everything. Wow! Just walk up to one and whisper "gold" and watch 'em run.

Yeah, I can see this lot taking over a galaxy .....

OK, the stories an improvement on previous seasons, thats not to say it was great, just better. On the downside it's a pity that the wasted so much time with things going "bang" and bright colours and smoke and guns and generally running around playing soldiers rather then telling an involved and interesting story. That sort of stuff might go down well in the states, but it puts me to sleep in no time.

Quiet frankly the biggest problem with this story is the bloody useless Cybermen. Chop them out, concentrate on the Fourth Reich Nazis, (who were just as pathetic as the Cybermen), and Lady Peinforte, the Nemesis "comet" and the Doctors past and you might have had something.

And hello. A "comet" (odd it looked like a ROCK to me), CRASHES to earth a few miles from Windsor castle (I assume) and you don't have half the scientific community and military from all over the country all over it in 5 seconds. (Again I assume they knew it was coming. The newspaper headline seemed to indicate that). Three policemen disappear, die or get knock out and no-one comes looking. A jolly big spaceship is flying all over the english country side and no-one sees it? Cybermen bodies are piling all over the place (rusting I suppose) and no-ones raises an alarm. Bloody great gun battles are going on with explosions and noise and nothing happens, no-one turns up to investigate?

Still, it was a fun romp. It had some good moments. It could have been so much better. (20/20 hindsight, I know). I must pull out the extended VHS version with the extra footage and check it out over the weekend. At least it came with a documentary .....

Let's hope the Cybermen are back to their original form in the new series.
"The Christmas Invasion" clip looked good. But what sort of Cybermen will they be ....

SharazJek · Joined: 12 Aug 2005 Posts: 902 Location: Hobart, Tasmania

Beatly · Joined: 24 Jul 2005 Posts: 375 Location: London

Silver Nemesis - it's a bit of a soggy phut as far as celebrations go, isn't it?

I got the impression from that unofficial Cybus website that these new Cybermen are to be the lower rungs of society, the disaffected, the disabled, the terminally ill and the desperate, augmented to get a second chance at life, but unfortunately turned into ruthless emotionless killing machines. Bummer! I don't know if that is how they're to be portrayed, though - just my take on the few facts (which may not even be that) on that website.